1920 Rules Changes (advanced draft)

[ctwaterman]

I know the planes are cheap folks but comeon.... :-[

I think that the all of China historicaly by 1941 couldnt really find enough people qualified to train as pilots for the number of aircraft you are deploying currently.

But China is a more modern country in Navalism then in Histroy if it took you 6 years to build up your  5800 Aircraft then all the aircraft you build 6 years ago are about to become death traps.  Aircraft like Zepplins just cease to exist after 6 years.   Im getting rid of mine in 5 just to be safe and because 1916 aircraft will become my training aircraft in the very near future :)

Charles

[Logi]

Well the airforce size compared to my pop size is tinier than the Swiss or Japanese.

You forget, I'm in charge of 189.5 mil people, the Swiss just got 37 and the Japs only have ~120mil.

You misunderstand. They were not all build 6 years ago. They were build gradually, about 500 per half.

At most every half only 500 go to waste. Besides, the first aircraft were little more than kite-scouts. The 1500 trainer aircrafts were built in this past two years.

Besides, China by 1941 had nothing. Remember a little thing called the Chinese Civil War? You know... the once that last from the Opium Wars to 1955? Well Nverse China is more modern, South China is WAY more modern. And we don't have an active all-out war with warlords reigning over lands.

This South China is half-industrialized and unlike historically, did not suffer a century of constant warfare. Yea... I can get the people trained and unlike historical China, you'll notice almost 1/3 of my army are elite trained. Not the peasant militia mass that it was historically.

NVerse =/= OTL

[maddox]

The French airforce infrastructure is laughable compared to anybody elses.

2 mayor military airbases. Gravelines and Marseilles.  Of the 500 Italian planes France has bought, 420 are left over, and that's because 200 are in storage. And those are not the most modern ones either.
A potload of  airship and blimp bases.
One civilian airport at Paris and one at Marseilles, nothing more than a few maintenance sheds, a hotel/bar/restaurant doubling as reception and check in area along a runway, maybe even concreted.

But, Ir Dunne is finishing his prototype 5 engined air-domination aircraft. And that will change the equation.  ;)

[ctwaterman]

Well the airforce size compared to my pop size is tinier than the Swiss or Japanese.
You forget, I'm in charge of 189.5 mil people, the Swiss just got 37 and the Japs only have ~120mil.
You misunderstand. They were not all build 6 years ago. They were build gradually, about 500 per half.
At most every half only 500 go to waste. Besides, the first aircraft were little more than kite-scouts. The 1500 trainer aircrafts were built in this past two years.
Besides, China by 1941 had nothing. Remember a little thing called the Chinese Civil War? You know... the once that last from the Opium Wars to 1955? Well Nverse China is more modern, South China is WAY more modern. And we don't have an active all-out war with warlords reigning over lands.
This South China is half-industrialized and unlike historically, did not suffer a century of constant warfare. Yea... I can get the people trained and unlike historical China, you'll notice almost 1/3 of my army are elite trained. Not the peasant militia mass that it was historically.
NVerse =/= OTL

Its not about Population its about what percentage of the Population is conducting subsistance level agriculture.  Those Countries with less then or Equal to 1 IC per Pop are either subsistance level or developed agricultural extraction and mineral extraction economies.   Not alot of people familiar with car or tractor engines.  Pilots can be trained engine mechanics are more difficult.

As and Example Italy is just barely above the 1 IC per Population in Italy itself the North and Sicily grow Wheat the South grows Vegetables and Grapes and Olives.  Industry is located only in a few good locations and there are adequate roads and railway lines but not excessive amounts to move goods to markets.

As an opposite Example Metropolitan France and supprisingly a few of Pacific Island Nations have a huge amount of IC per Population sometime almost 3 to 1 or larger.  These are highly Industrialized locations with Heavy Industry supported by large amounts of Light Industry and support industry.

Anyway given that you Southern Border is the Himilayan Mountains and only an Idiot tries to fly any of our current aircraft anywhere near them, Your Western Border is Afginistan and More Mountains you really have a huge concentration of Airplanes along your coast and along your border with the MK.  ;)

[Desertfox]

Well I've made this point before and I guess I'll make it again. The Chinese Air Force is bigger than ALL the COMBINED Air Forces before and AFTER WWI. The numbers are around there somewhere buried in any of of several aircraft threads.

BTW After thinking it through, I do not think that airships should count towards airfield numbers. They already require hangars for operation.

[Nobody]

Because aircraft are fragile and temperamental machines, it is not possible to maintain them at anything but wartime footing.

While I can understand that operating aircrafts is supposed to be expensive, I think that making no difference between normal peacetime operation and war mobilization is wrong.
I furthermore think that we should stop putting a fixed constant between the purchase price and maintenance cost (especially for the army). Meaning operating a unit of single engined fighters should be more expansive and a unit of bombers with the same purchase cost.

[Jefgte]

.. & what about the Railways?

NUS built railways from north Peru to south Argentina.

I Sim 1BP & 2$ per HY.

Is that really useful or I am in a old rule dream...?


Jef  ;)

[ctwaterman]

Railways rules were lost somewhere in one of the rule updates I have a copy of them somewhere.  I built a 1 Meter Railway from Bengahzi to Tobruk, and from Tobruk to the Egyptian Border so that in the event of a war this was back in 1912/13 when I first entered the game I could support an Army if necessary in that area.

Same with the railway from Massawa Eritrea to Aseb on the New Zion Border.  All told I built around 500 Km of 1 Meter Medium Gauge railway with the associated BP costs.

So Yes we are in Old School rules.  ;)

It is however extremely useful if you point out to the mods durring a war that you can run tons of supplies to Point A and your Enemy has to carry his supplies on his Back.   An Example is the China/Burma War its 300+ Km of Bamboo Jungle and Mountains between Kunming the Closest real railroad head in China and the Burmese border.  Its why the Burma road ran to Kunming !   Imagine trying to move even a 75mm Pack Gun and 100 Rounds of Ammo that distance.   It would take hundred maybe thousands of men to move the food and supplies just to feed 1 man at the front.

[Jefgte]

Questions are:
1 - Are Raylways rules useful ?
2 - Did they introduce bonus for the mobility of the Army ?


Jef

[damocles]

The actual current size of the RLM under the new roles is 5 air wings or 600 aircraft. We have 21 airfields established out of 24 planned of which 8 are operational and 16 are building or will be built.

I find the NS claim that WE are the reason that they have a huge aggressor air-force ludicrous. Our RLM came into existence as a direct response to their buildup. With nothing to fear from our European neighbors, we had not seen the need to build any but the minimum air service and that a mostly civil one. Not until we saw the NS act as they did, did we turn to military aviation, (Bavaria) and then we emphasized DEFENSIVE types. Is there a single BOMBER in our current force?

Even now our plans for European basing is just the minimum for training and a possible war reserve against overseas aggressors. I do not see the correlation to his chicken egg argument.

NvR.        

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The RR are not sop useful. I will build strategic RR nonetheless.
There is no bonus related to RR as such, it is moderators' discretion.
Borys

[Logi]

Well I've made this point before and I guess I'll make it again. The Chinese Air Force is bigger than ALL the COMBINED Air Forces before and AFTER WWI. The numbers are around there somewhere buried in any of of several aircraft threads.

We've been over this over and over again DF and you bring up the same point to be shoot down. yes, BEFORE AND AFTER WAR. But you fail to count the number built DURING the war and DESTROYED during the war.

This is buildup without the destruction of them due to war and is actually a relatively small number.

Its not about Population its about what percentage of the Population is conducting subsistance level agriculture.  Those Countries with less then or Equal to 1 IC per Pop are either subsistance level or developed agricultural extraction and mineral extraction economies.   Not alot of people familiar with car or tractor engines.  Pilots can be trained engine mechanics are more difficult.

Unlike Europe, China has more than enough food to feed it's populace. And then again, I mean during civil war that lasted a century in China, there were at one point over 5 factions and the total troop count (not even counting logistic supports) over 10 mil. And people were not starving.'

I think China can manage 163,500 people not being farmers. Especially a China with more tractors and what-not for farming.

As and Example Italy is just barely above the 1 IC per Population in Italy itself the North and Sicily grow Wheat the South grows Vegetables and Grapes and Olives.  Industry is located only in a few good locations and there are adequate roads and railway lines but not excessive amounts to move goods to markets.

China's industry has always been around the coast, which is what most of South China is. Then again, Rice, which South China grows, yields 100~300 more calories per pound than wheat. China has ample road systems for travel by foot and horse. It's been shaped by centuries on centuries of the same routes. Add to that, paved roads and the extensive railroad networks that South China has built and it's no longer a  real problem.

Anyway given that you Southern Border is the Himilayan Mountains and only an Idiot tries to fly any of our current aircraft anywhere near them, Your Western Border is Afginistan and More Mountains you really have a huge concentration of Airplanes along your coast and along your border with the MK.

No..... My southern border is Southeast Asia with the traitorous Indochinese, the DKB, and Siam. My southwestern border is the Himalayan. My western border is Tibet and western Middle Kingdom.

Whilst I do have the majority of my airfields on the border with the MK (because it's long, try defending a over 2500 mile long border) they are less packed than my southern bases primarily because I haven't had the chance to build more southern ones.

We have 21 airfields established out of 24 planned of which 8 are operational and 16 are building or will be built.

I think I have more of a problem with the number of airfields some people have.

[Walter]

Well I've made this point before and I guess I'll make it again. The Chinese Air Force is bigger than ALL the COMBINED Air Forces before and AFTER WWI. The numbers are around there somewhere buried in any of of several aircraft threads.

We've been over this over and over again DF and you bring up the same point to be shoot down. yes, BEFORE AND AFTER WAR. But you fail to count the number built DURING the war and DESTROYED during the war.

Looks like it is necessary to bring up a few numbers again...
Breguet 14: 5500 during the war (1917-1918)
Avro 504: 8970 during the war (1914-1918)

That's just two plane types of many. It think that if the Breguet had appeared earlier and was built during the entire war at that rate, you'd be looking at a figure in excess of 10,000.

[Desertfox]

We've been over this over and over again DF and you bring up the same point to be shoot down. yes, BEFORE AND AFTER WAR. But you fail to count the number built DURING the war and DESTROYED during the war.

This is buildup without the destruction of them due to war and is actually a relatively small number.

I know how many where built during the war. But you are not at war...

[Guinness]

This is actually a very good illustration of why moving to aircraft units is a good idea. The accident rate in this era was quite high, so you have a lot of attritional replacement. The idea with the units is that they encapsulate the costs incurred in attritional replacement, etc. partially through maintenance costs. This should mean less bean counting, as instead of having to keep up with loss rates, etc., one only needs to pay to keep units operating.

Incidentally, operating costs and attritional replacement in peacetime was almost as high as in wartime. Many many more aircraft were lost during world war 1 to accidents than to enemy action. This is why the draft includes only wartime upkeep for aircraft units.