Old French Battleships

[TexanCowboy]

Bucharesti,Romania
November,1916

"Mr.Estaing, I suppose you know why you're here," began the Foreign Minister.

"No, Monsieur, I'm afraid I do not"

"Well, as you know, relations between Imperial Romania and the Glorious Republic of france have been very good as of late. As you may have heard, Romania and France are working on a deal to sell two of the obsolete, to the technologlically mighty French goverment, Plonger-class torpedo boats. However, the Defense," with the scorn that only a dimplomat can use when referring to the warmaking forces of its country, "are not content. They are wanting to purchase a full fleged battleship, and they want to know how much the Great Napoleon costs."

Mr.Estaing gasped. That was one of the mightist ships in the French fleet when he had entered the dimplomatic service, and he couldn't even think of it ever leaving the fleet. He managed to sputter out,"I'll have to ask my superiors in Paris."

[maddox]

A day later, Djibouti Island. main fleet base. Admirals quarters of the Mighty DeCreme.

Admiral Geon, monsieur Estaing wired a strange request in.

Oh, lieutenant, remind me were monsieur Estaing is posted for the moment, and in what department.

He's currently under the diplomatical service of Minister Capet, posted in Bucharest, Romania. It seems our Romanian friends are very well aware of his connection to the navy.

That last bit will interest Monsieur Grange a lot. But tell, what request was made trough semi official channels.

Minister Lebrun has sold 2 of the small Pluche coastal DD's to Romania, and that sparked intrest in more and bigger.  It seems Romania is shopping around for real heavy ships, and not willing to settle for the oldest battleships, the Dantons, of the navy, they requested what the pricetag on Napoleon would be.

Interesting. In the modern war on the 7 seas, the ships without firecontrol won't stand a chance, and the Valeurs, nor Napoleon have been fitted with our FCT, nor does their armament mix, as on this monstrosity, support the technology.
We can spare her, especialy with Occitany worked up and ready to come out in public, and Brittanie in the last fase of her build.

Occitany Sir? Brittanie?

You'll learn lieutenant, you'll learn. Where do you think the lieutenant you're replacing went?
All in all, send my recommendations to Minister Lebrun and Premier Galpoux.

[maddox]

A week later,

Djibout Island, admirals Quarters Fleet flagship DeCreme.

Admiral Geon is reading reports from a huge stack, speaking to himself , all alone as he is in the grandiose saloon.

Ah, the Romanians have found a better way to spend their money. Pity, and good in 1 go. Napoleon should get her first refit asap.
Still 3 Pluches are sold, and the money will be delivered. I wonder if Minister Capet again will insist on gold bulion. He will I guess.  Admiral Povoire won't be happy, losing 3 of his patrol vessels.
On the other hand, replacing them with 3 of the new Tigre B's should placate that old grouch.
But those 3 will have to set sail now . It will take 7000 nautical miles, 35 days hard sailing, including refueling, to get to their new roost.  Hmm, better play safe.

writing down a nota:
" The Pluches to be sent to Brest asap. Arrange resupply points for those short legged ships.
Sending the Brest based Leopard Carmin, Leopard Dorian, Leopard Emeraude, Leopard Glauque as temporary replacements, adapt patrols accordingly"

[maddox]

2 days later. Admirals Quarters French Fleet Flagship DeCreme, en route to Marseilles.

Admiral, urgent message from Paris.

Yes Lieutenant, thank you. Admiral Geon reading the message

Oh, we can send a reply.

Sufficiënt Pluches under way stop

Yes admiral?  Can I ask what's this about?

Of course. You know the first attempts to build torpedo boat destroyers? The Plumeaus and the Pluches. Romania is modernizing the fleet, and they offered to buy 3 of the Pluches. With our Tigre B's entering active service, it ain't a problem. So I gave orders to recall all the pluches from the Caribbean, with the intention to have the 4 others rebuild as AS ships. The war around Siam is proving that those are sourely needed.

Thing is, Romania , seemingly having very deep pockets, asked to buy 6 of 'm. And Minister lebrun ordered me to make it happen asap.
It just means I'll need to find other hulls as anti submarine warfare ships. And I intend to give that job to a certain interested  lieutenant. I believe you have 2 jobs to do now. Getting the message to Paris to the wireless room, and find me at least 4 ships for anti submarine warfare.

[maddox]

Somewere end 1916.

Admirals Quarters, Fleet Flagship DeCreme. The quarters denuded from any personal effect, just the Admirals desk standing , bolted where it was bolted from the day DeCreme came from her trials.

Admiral Geon, your effects are loaded in the airship, it's time to leave.

Yes lieutenant. I know, but I just want to have a look on this ugly bitch. Join me to the top, the elevator is in working order, so the spiral staircase ain't for us now.  

Yes Admiral.


Laters, at the airship base of Djibouti, the rare occurence that 3 airships are there at the same time.  
The 1915 airship 47 , nicknamed Soufflent le Dragon Magique for strange reasons , is reloading munition for the big guns. The wooden crates used to transport the shells are unloaded and the shells inserted in the internal aluminium magazines that are part of the frame of the gondola. her sister 47 Ombre currently patroling the northern entrance of the Great Rift  

The courrier airship for Ceylon delayed by a malfunctioning BMW engine (Bayerische Motoren Werke) being repared in the hangar.

And the last airship , waiting in the gentle breeze is bound for Suez, with Paris as end destination.
2 men are in the lounge, the only passengers.

Ah, Français, you could get away from your grey lady at last?

Piere, I lived on that grey bitch the last 3 years, feeling like a spider in a web, and i'm trading her for an even bigger web. I hope your people have prepared our gouvernment for a surprise in januari.

Don't you worry, Occitanie will be welcome in Brest Januari 3th. I'll join you for the new years eve feast on her, unless you don't want that.

That means you'll have to be in Tunis at christmas.

Should be ideal, don't you think?
But another matter, NtG ain't going to Romania, so one of my bright employees cooked this up.

Interesting

[maddox]

Paris 28 december 1916.

Minister Capet, I don't know what you did to that poor Romanian King, but now the Romanians are interested in one of the smaller Battleships our designer groups from Brest had in mind.

I know, even if they bought the old Toronto as is, they seem impressed with the French technological might. In any case, baring some exceptions, I'm capable to talk to Royalty, sometimes even on a foot of equality. But that's neither here nor there.

I authorised a bid between the shipyards to see who can build this BB. Now to see what yard has space available.



Later that day.
A back office on the Chantiers St Nazaire.

Messieurs, a golden opportunity has arisen. Romania wants a Battleship, and them guillible ones want it now. Minister Capet with Premier Galpoux are in agreement to provide a modern, small BB to Romania, diverting pressious funding from Masque.
Because of that, my engineers have done an audit on the plans of that glorified 19th century armored cruiser.

Ersatz Transylvania, Romanian Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   17.000 t light; 17.964 t standard; 20.410 t normal; 22.367 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 94,16 ft x 25,10 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 169,00 m x 28,70 m  x 7,65 m

Armament:
     8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,68kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     18 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
     4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8.092 lbs / 3.671 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,8" / 324 mm   282,78 ft / 86,19 m   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Ends:   5,50" / 140 mm   271,67 ft / 82,81 m   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Upper:   5,50" / 140 mm   282,78 ft / 86,19 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 78% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,65" / 42 mm   282,78 ft / 86,19 m   21,75 ft / 6,63 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 298 mm   9,75" / 248 mm      11,8" / 298 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 11,75" / 298 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30.543 shp / 22.785 Kw = 21,50 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.403 tons

Complement:
   853 - 1.109

Cost:
   £2,937 million / $11,747 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.012 tons, 5,0%
   Armour: 7.334 tons, 35,9%
      - Belts: 3.162 tons, 15,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 375 tons, 1,8%
      - Armament: 1.762 tons, 8,6%
      - Armour Deck: 1.845 tons, 9,0%
      - Conning Tower: 189 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.218 tons, 6,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.137 tons, 35,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.410 tons, 16,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32.165 lbs / 14.590 Kg = 37,2 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 6,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 6,1 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,545
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Quarterdeck (24%):   14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Stern:      14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,38 ft / 4,69 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,6%
   Waterplane Area: 36.271 Square feet or 3.370 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Monsieur  Timbre , ain't you worried that the Romanians won't notice a discrepancy in armor, draught and top speed?

First of all, Romania just bought 4000 tons of worthless floating scrap. Without turning a hair.
I would be surprised if the Romanian drakkar builders even have messuring instruments that are more accurate than a old fashioned shipwrights tumb, and it ain't easy to messure the thickness of the armor plates if these are filled out on the backside with putty and cork, or sandwiched between deck plates. Also, we can easely substitute the armor plate for the older Herauld plate material. That saves a nice big chunk on the financial means.

With my plan, we can each add a new wing to our estates, with the diverted materials, we all can have a new yacht and have enough left over for the anual fraternity charity event in Paris. Anybody questions?

Do we have that contract?  

Not yet, but I working on that. A pleasant evening in the lesser known, but elegant establisment Chez Loulou with a few bureaucrats of the right departements should do it.

[The Rock Doctor]

What a bunch of inglourious basterds!

[maddox]

Thanks for the compliment. Those are the guys who pushed Masque down the throat of the Marine Nationale.

Premier Galpoux didn't come out poorerer.

[Kaiser Kirk]

What a bunch of inglourious basterds!

Yes, but at least they didn't kill Kenny

[The Rock Doctor]

Kenny probably wasn't worth the effort.

[TexanCowboy]

Ummmmmmm....... what should I say? Makes good storyline material, though. I can come out with a story about how the French cheated us and demand a refit....... Just a question for maddox, though. Is there a reason for this? I just gave you a free ship.

[Sachmle]

My guess, just storyline.

[TexanCowboy]

Ohhh... Ok. Still, I'm going to break this wide open in H1 1919.

[maddox]

Pure OOC comments

Ummmmmmm....... what should I say? Makes good storyline material, though. I can come out with a story about how the French cheated us and demand a refit......

How are you going to "prove" such misconduct?  Armor plating is backed up with wood and concrete to fill out the gaps between armor and hull, half an inch of wood more, and you can only messure it when the armor plates are removed, something done only for a refit, or after battledamage.
The half a ktn lower topspeed, it just can be the inexperience of your engineers, or just a difference in messuring methodes.
I did a lot of thinking and talking to others, some even with ship building experience...

Just a question for Maddox, though. Is there a reason for this? I just gave you a free ship.

74 tons of ancient TB, let me think. Oh yes, I do have a story for that too.
It's just story, and it proves that it ain't all are to be trusted, just like real life. You'll see how it progresses. Worst case would have been you canceling the order.

And on the other hand, how much capacity less does the "Ersatz Transylvania" have compared to the original?

[TexanCowboy]

Not much, actually. The belt is a little light for my taste, and the turrets are underarmered. Just a request, though. Since you are cheating me, can I have the plans to the 10.83'' gun?