Siam/Netherlands

[The Rock Doctor]

Done, better late than never.

Players should transmit orders for all of September to me within 72 hours, please.  If not received, I will either assume your old orders apply or, if I have received none previously, that you're being a good, non-provocative neutral.

[maddox]

The French keep their obvious neutrality.

The orders given still stand.

[Blooded]

I need some clarifications about the Netherlands/Siam issue. OOC

Is the Netherlands an absolute Monarchy or constitutional? I could find little info in the Netherlands section.

My take on the 'Den Haag' suggest that stopping foreign shipping is not allowed, but since it was hammered out in the Netherlands I figure they would know the rules best.

I also get the idea that a warning is needed to 'mine' waters. This warning went out at the moment of laying it down. Given the general lack of Wireless and/or communications overall I would imagine that a month of warning would be needed to stop traffic.

What is happening at Tanjung Pelepas? (Russian used Port in malaya).

What does the populace throughout the Kingdom think about this 'Blitz'?

What are the Dutch 'terms' now that the 15th has past(deadline for the previous set of 'terms').

Any clarifications would help a great deal.

[Korpen]

I need some clarifications about the Netherlands/Siam issue. OOC

Is the Netherlands an absolute Monarchy or constitutional? I could find little info in the Netherlands section.

The Kingdom is very much a constitutional state, and has so been since the introduction of monarchy in 1806.

My take on the 'Den Haag' suggest that stopping foreign shipping is not allowed, but since it was hammered out in the Netherlands I figure they would know the rules best.

The laws of the seas are not applicable as they do not address wars and blockades one way or another.
The conduct of the blockade is a more generous to neutrals version of the French intended blockade during the 1871 war and of the blockade during the Crimea war of 1856. 
So compared to custom (or at least the majority of historic blockades), people should be surprised by how lenient it is.

I also get the idea that a warning is needed to 'mine' waters. This warning went out at the moment of laying it down. Given the general lack of Wireless and/or communications overall I would imagine that a month of warning would be needed to stop traffic.

That is why ships do hold the blockade and turn away ships.

What is happening at Tanjung Pelepas? (Russian used Port in malaya).

Nothing really.

What does the populace throughout the Kingdom think about this 'Blitz'?

"About time something was done about the arrogant and aggressive goons" (Netherlands)
"Lets liberate our brethren from the thai oppression! Were do I enlist?" (Malaya)

What are the Dutch 'terms' now that the 15th has past(deadline for the previous set of 'terms').

No outstanding terms at the moment.

[miketr]

My take on the 'Den Haag' suggest that stopping foreign shipping is not allowed, but since it was hammered out in the Netherlands I figure they would know the rules best.

The laws of the seas are not applicable as they do not address wars and blockades one way or another.
The conduct of the blockade is a more generous to neutrals version of the French intended blockade during the 1871 war and of the blockade during the Crimea war of 1856. 
So compared to custom (or at least the majority of historic blockades), people should be surprised by how lenient it is.

It depends on the details... 

1) Are ships being stopped on the high sea or in Burma's waters by a proper blockade force?  Distant blockades are illegal whatever nonsense the British cameup with in WW1.  The standard is a neutral flag on the high seas provides absolute protection to the ship AND its cargo till a bloclade is reached and only the cargo can be siezed and only if its contraband.  Contraband isn't food or base goods.

2) Preventing neutral shipping from leaving a blockaded port; especially when there was no warning isn't legal.  The standard is 48 hours post declaration of war to allow neutral and hostile shipping to clear ports is the norm as I recall.

Michael

[Korpen]

It depends on the details... 

1) Are ships being stopped on the high sea or in Burma's waters by a proper blockade force?  Distant blockades are illegal whatever nonsense the British cameup with in WW1. 

That is really dependent on how one defines "close" and "distant". But the blockading forces are so placed that there is any reason for crossing the blockade line unless going to or coming from a Siamese port, which is what made the UK blockade so questionable (that it affected neutral ports and coasts).

The standard is a neutral flag on the high seas provides absolute protection to the ship AND its cargo till a bloclade is reached and only the cargo can be siezed and only if its contraband.  Contraband isn't food or base goods.

Foodstuffs and other dual-use cargo (such as horseshoes, tack, dynamite, trucks and railroad equipment) can be considered contraband if it is considered probable that it is headed for, or for the benefit of, the armed forces of the blockaded country.
However considering that Siam is a major food exporter, not importer the food issue is pretty irrelevant.




2) Preventing neutral shipping from leaving a blockaded port; especially when there was no warning isn't legal.  The standard is 48 hours post declaration of war to allow neutral and hostile shipping to clear ports is the norm as I recall.

[miketr]

The standard is a neutral flag on the high seas provides absolute protection to the ship AND its cargo till a bloclade is reached and only the cargo can be siezed and only if its contraband.  Contraband isn't food or base goods.

Foodstuffs and other dual-use cargo (such as horseshoes, tack, dynamite, trucks and railroad equipment) can be considered contraband if it is considered probable that it is headed for, or for the benefit of, the armed forces of the blockaded country.

That wasn't the standard...  probable wasn't enough cause as that just leads to the logic the UK used.  Any food stuffs, or the like going to Germany just free up local production to go to the army. 

The example given for the standard was an enemy fortress.  IE 100% proof that materials in question are going to enemy army units.

However considering that Siam is a major food exporter, not importer the food issue is pretty irrelevant.

I agree on that...

Michael

[Blooded]

Thanks for the info!

I thought I had read somewhere that Netherlands was a constitution Monarchy, but I could not locate that info.

As to blockades, national leaders in game are much nicer and benevolent than OTL. Have we had equivalents to the 1871 war and Crimea?

I just finished reading 'German Raider Atlantis' and was a bit surprised at all the 'neutral' shipping that was sunk. Did WW1 change many of the rules?

48 hours seems a short warning in our timeframe, are you sure that is not from the WW2 time period?

[Kaiser Kirk]

I just finished reading 'German Raider Atlantis' and was a bit surprised at all the 'neutral' shipping that was sunk. Did WW1 change many of the rules?

More or less. The U.K. was the superpower and changed the commonly accepted rules. Blockading neutral Netherlands on the ground that Rotterdam was essentially the prime port of Germany and goods would simply be transhipped...wasn't exactly proper.  I find it ironic considering the hue and cry over the violation of Belgian neutrality.

I have read, though I do not know if it is merely conjecture, that the Brits reminded the US that during the US civil war, the Union blockade was essentially a distant one at first, establishing the precedent - at least between the two.  US trade and sympathies towards the maritime Allies exceeded that with the Central powers, so the issue was not greatly pressed.

[The Rock Doctor]

Between some overtime from work, and all the summer farm stuff I want/need to do at home, I've not been able to sim September yet.  It will be done this coming weekend, though I anticipate the report will be somewhat concise - like the last chunk of August.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Mods are going to take a day to discuss Surabaya and how to proceed in light of the discussion on that topic.

Korpen and Sachmle are invited to provide their views and recommendations to the Mods via PM.

[The Rock Doctor]

Korpen is entirely correct that the geography of Surabaya was difficult for an invasion.  In that respect, I accept responsibility for not adequately researching the geography of the area.  It would not be fair to stick with the original news posting, as this would deprive the Dutch of some of the geographical benefits they ought to derive.

On the other hand, it is the Moderators' view that a permanent garrison of 25,000 troops in an established port would be difficult to conceal, and ought to have been known or at least suspected by the DKB.  Such knowledge would likely have influenced a DKB decision on whether or not to invade that location. 

Therefore, we are not requiring DKB to stick with Surabaja as its intended destination, either.  We have opted to re-write the war report so that the town of Padangbai, Bali is the site of the DKB invasion.  We will retain the various naval actions as posted, modifying general locations if necessary, but note that local geography played no role in those engagements.  The details of the invasion itself - when the town is taken, for example, will also be retained.

I apologize for the confusion, and would ask players to submit their orders for October - and post any news postings for September - by Friday night.  I'd also ask that any information with respect to shore defences, island garrisons, and the like be clearly articulated - and I'm referring to all involved parties here.  Those of you neutral players may wish to pass the time by ensuring that your own encyclopedias are up to date as well.

[Korpen]

Like I was about to writ when we got a power outage: I am on vacation at the moment, so no major post from me for awhile. Sitting down and write up a general orientation for every garrison and costal defence battery is far too much work. Will try and get specifics posted if asked for. Will see if I get time and inclination to finish some sort of orders tomorrow.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm going to start simming October on Thursday.  If I haven't received everybody's orders, I will assume the generalities of September's orders still apply.

[The Rock Doctor]

Rest of October should be written up and posted tonight or tomorrow morning.