27.X.2008 Rules Updates

[P3D]

1) When I set the cost of the tank tech I was attempting to use a scale based system like the other army techs.  So if you guys do rescale the cost of the tanks you should consider is it over or underpriced compared to infantry?  In WW2 there was a reason that armor units were about 1/10 to 1/20 of the number of infantry units.   

And one Heavy Armor unit of 4BP represents say 120 tanks. A tank "division" needs two units, a corps ~8. So an Armored Corps will cost you 32BP. With your numbers in 1935 it'd cost $128. Way too exaggerated. I told this the first time when the rules got official.

2) Also the cost of tanks themselves vs. a BB is a bad idea as a tank unit; especially a WW2 one would have more gear than just the BB.  There would be the troops, small arms, armored recovery vehicles (a tank without a turret w/ a winch), a machine shop for repair and the support units, a large number of trucks / half tracks for the various support units / logistics.  We have support units for ships in the game as seperate units and ditto for bases.  Army units are just whole units so their support cost needs to be reflected in the base unit.

And those units wont' have more than 10% of the total tonnage of tanks. These units right now are pure tank formation plus support. So additional support units in 1935 compared to 1920 should not throw increase the cost of the division by 200%. So going by BP-relative cost is perfectly justified. If you also double the cost relative to the BB, my estimate would be surely over whatever real cost - esp. as BBs are more expensive than tanks tonnage-wise, and you also double this price.

[Jefgte]

I agree globaly with P3D remarks

4BP represents say 120 tanks

4000t for 120 tanks = 33 t per tank
Good for 1940

If Mods want that the Players build "Panzer Division"
one solution... double the BP


Jef  ;)

[P3D]

4000t for 120 tanks = 33 t per tank
Good for 1940

And also good for 1918, with Mark VIII weighing 37t.

[Jefgte]

37t & not a great mobility.
With 0.5BP, I prefer to have 50 tanks x10t in1915.


Jef

[P3D]

The rhomboids has much better mobility on rough terrain compared to a small tank due to large size - and might not be much slower either. Better step climbing and trench crossing counts a lot - of course, if you do not have trenches and tank obstacles to handle, 4 FT-17 is a better idea than a Mark-anything, even if not much faster or reliable. But then, as miketr noted, there are different techs for both.

[P3D]

1.  I have amended two starting dates for Aircraft techs.  The 1915 tech is deferred to 1917; 1920 is pushed back to 1921.  It is my view that the previous starting dates allowed for aircraft development that was far more rapid than sim events could possibly justify.

I apologize if this mucks up any 1915 sim reports in the offing, but I couldn't well tinker with the 1913 tech at this point, and the 1920 tech was too far away to make a dent in the problem.

I suggest to update the IC engines to be delayed similarly otherwise the effect of the delay would not be noticable - see my suggestions in the MTB thread.

Also, please clarify the foreign built/second-hand ship cost/maintenance issues.

[The Rock Doctor]

Good points both.  Will get to it.

[The Rock Doctor]

This is what I have in mind.

Foreign-built shipsAny nation may contract another player-nation to construct, refit, or repair a ship.  However, the job will be more expensive as a result of the builder and the operator not using identical equipment and parts.

Maintenance for a ship originally built by another nation is 25% higher than the standard maintenance costs, regardless of how old the ship is.  If the ship undergoes a refurbishment, the maintenance can be reduced to standard rates by spending 25% of the ship's original cash cost on top of the other refurbishment costs.

If a player contracts a foreign power to build a ship for him, he has the choice of accepting the higher maintenance rates noted above or by having the ship cost 25% more than standard.  The ship's subsequent maintenance fees will be as if the ship had been built domestically.

Repairs or refits by a foreign yard will cost 25% more than if done in a domestic yard.

In all cases, the BP cost is unaffected.

Terms of the deal - who pays the dollars and contributes the BP, as well as any profits for the contractor - are otherwise strictly for the contractor and the purchaser to determine.

Example:

Gran Colombia orders a 4,000 t (light) cruiser from Orange.  Gran Colombia does not wish to pay higher maintenance on the ship through her career, so orders the ships to Colombian standards.  Therefore, Orange will have to pay an additional $1.00 to build it.  Orange passes the additional cost on to Gran Colombia by charging $5.00 along with a modest profit on top of that.

[P3D]

Grate.