Feedback to Glorious and Incomparable and Astounding France

[Borys]

I believe that what you intended to write about the Lebel round is "rimmed" not "rimfire". A rimfire round has the detonator hidden in the rim of the case, and is actuated by a hammer, while a rimmed round has a "collar" arond the base, for better obduration.
Rimfire rounds were manufactured around the ACW, and were replaced with centrefire cases with percussion cap - which was actuated by a needle.

Borys

[Sachmle]

Your SS report for Occitane shows 1 raised MB turret, but the picture has B and X superfiring.

[Walter]

And the SS file indicates "Aft Main mounts separated by engine room"...

12 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room

I don't know, but I don't think that there is space for the engines between the aft two turrets...

[Tanthalas]

I think the pic is wrong walter I think the layout is suposed to be abqy

[Jefgte]

I agree

SS & drawing are different.

[The Rock Doctor]

As shown, ABXY, two mounts superfiring, yes.  Nice looking ship, though.

[maddox]

I can do 2 things.   Hope that Jefgt  reworks her, or adapt the SS file.

[maddox]

An adapted version, only problem is the loss of the good fireplatform qualification.

Occitanie, French GBB laid down 1913 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   35.010 t light; 37.418 t standard; 40.602 t normal; 43.149 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,75 ft / 715,22 ft x 108,27 ft x 30,18 ft (normal load)
   219,99 m / 218,00 m x 33,00 m  x 9,20 m

Armament:
      12 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (10x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 23.589 lbs / 10.700 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   410,00 ft / 124,97 m   20,50 ft / 6,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   407,68 ft / 124,26 m   29,00 ft / 8,84 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      12,5" / 318 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48.001 shp / 35.809 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.731 tons

Complement:
   1.429 - 1.859

Cost:
   £4,168 million / $16,672 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.726 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 13.187 tons, 32,5%
      - Belts: 4.906 tons, 12,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 875 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 3.644 tons, 9,0%
      - Armour Deck: 3.431 tons, 8,4%
      - Conning Tower: 331 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2.182 tons, 5,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16.315 tons, 40,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.592 tons, 13,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51.229 lbs / 23.237 Kg = 30,6 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 8,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,8 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,608
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2,43 ft / 0,74 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,20 ft / 8,90 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (18%):   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Stern:      16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,97 ft / 5,78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,3%
   Waterplane Area: 57.060 Square feet or 5.301 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 218 lbs/sq ft or 1.062 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Misc weigth
250 tons FC
100 tons ears
100 tons Admirals quarters
100 tons crew comfort
50 tons to be assigned

[maddox]

Going to keep the 2 superfiring turrets. She just looks right like this.

[Korpen]

I took a look at the "French Infrastructure 1915" page, but the spacing of the columns is so chaotic it is impossible to tell what type of slips and docks the numbers corresponds to.

[maddox]

Sorry that my computer skills don't equal my metal working ability.

[Korpen]

Sorry that my computer skills don't equal my metal working ability.

As the tabbing is the problem might i suggest instead of:

Brest Type 4                          
Dry Docks         1   3      1         
Slips         1   3           

Write it like:

Brest Type 4                         
Dry Docks         
1   Type 1
3   Type 2   
1   Type 3     
Slips         
1   Type 1
3   Type 2         

[maddox]

Thanks for the idea.

[The Rock Doctor]

I was looking at your glorious infrastructure - what's present at Le Grande Canal?

[maddox]

IC

Actualy, the infrastructure at the Le Grande Canal was never finished.  It's just the canal and barracks for the 2 5/3 corps placed there.
Small cities where some of the workers of the canal stayed- not even a blip on the French population-
A few military depots  make out the rest.
One of these depots is storing Anuhuac weapons.
The 3 Battlebarge 17 330 mm L35 guns and 2 spares found at New Rhun as depicted in the Emerald Queen tread came from there-.

Each end has a fortress with 2 340mm guns in concrete casemates, but the upkeep was never payed, nor were those finished.

Premier Palpaté diverted the funding for that to El Dorado  (remember it was the transition time from Nverse II To Nverse III)

Premier/ defence minister Paixhans never wished to finish those fortresses, nor are the ports on the end more than anchorages with concrete quays without any infrastructure outside the bare minimum to get the canal going.  At that time it was felt that Haiti/Port Au Price would fullfill the role of defensive point.

Just to avoid to provoke Gran Colombia.

OOC, since France post HY reports, no dime was gained or lost at the Great Canal, and the CSA under Jamie, and now Guinnes, played host to the French fleet protecting the Canal.

This means the Great Canal just can pay of its debts at the expected or a bit slower ratio. The competion of the 2 other canals just makes it difficult to make it Premier Jardans Dream.

The defensive works are getting overgrown with jungle and getting them back to spec would mean an almost complete rebuild. These works were small and actualy build to older specs than the Ligne Decreme- difference, Ligne Decreme uses 340mm Naval twin turrets on each of the 10 main forts. Joined by a host of 140mm guns. (this explains the Ship Building Hiatus between 1902 and 1907)

The Great Canal fortresses were to use concrete casemated 340's (think Guns of Navarone). But the guns, if ever installed, never fired a shot, nor got any maintenance.  And I guess everybody can imagine what that does after 8 years in the damp, mid American climate. Glorious France would be lucky to gain scrap from it./

I hope this explains enough.