MICS Tech Share

[Valles]

As most of us are probably aware, Maoria, Italia, the CSA, and the NUS have an ongoing program of mutual research-sharing going on. Tanthalas' departure thus presents a problem for us three active players in this group, since that blank spot on out 'potential imports' form makes it harder to plan and coordinate our own research.

So, here's my proposal for what NPC!Italia is working on:

1910H2
        1910 IC Engines 1               2
        1912 Turbines   1               4
        1910 Aircraft   1               2
        1910 Light Armor1               4

1911H1
        1910 IC Engines 1               3
        1912 Turbines   1               5
        1910 Aircraft   1               3
        1910 Light Armor1               5

1911H2
        1910 IC Engines 1               4
        1910 Mechanized 1               1
        1910 Aircraft   1               4
        1908 FireCon    0.5             1
        1908 NightFight 0.5             1


1912H1
        1910 IC Engines 1               5
        1910 Mechanized 1               2
        1910 Aircraft   1               5
        1908 FireCon    0.5             2
        1908 NightFight 0.5             2


1912H2
        1910 Mobilize   1               1
        1910 Mechanized 1               3
        1912 Geared Drv 1               1
        1908 FireCon    0.5             3
        1908 NightFight 0.5             3

1913H1
        1910 Mobilize   1               2
        1910 Mechanized 1               4
        1912 Geared Drv 1               2
        1908 FireCon    0.5             4
        1908 NightFight 0.5             4

For reference, the last HY for which we have full data on the other three, 1911H2, showed that they were working on...

Maoria:
        Baseline Torpedoes            $0.25 (2nd half)
        Baseline Infantry             $0.25 (2nd half)
        Baseline Mobile Units         $0.25 (2nd half)
        Advanced Mobilization         $0.25 (2nd half)
        Advanced Amphibious Operations   $0.25 (2nd half)
        Primative Submarines             $0.25 (2nd half)
        PROJECT KEWHA                    $0.5 (2nd period)
        Cutting Edge Airships:                $1 (4th period)
        Advanced Railway Guns:                $1 (4th period)

NUS:
        1908 Night Fighting            $0.25
        1908 Torpedoes                 $0.25
       
CSA:
1905 Cutting Edge ICE     $0.50 1st half
Historical 1914 aircrafts     $0.50 1st half
Cutting Edge Shells     $1.00 3rd half
Primative ASW (1910)     $1.00 3rd half
Cutting Edge Cruisers     $1.00 3rd half
Cutting Edge Subs     $1.00 3rd half
Cutting Edge Reserves     $1.00 3rd half
15"/L40, 2000-pounder     $0.50 3rd half
2.75"/L50 10-pounder     $0.25 3rd half
1.5"/30 Maxim AA     $0.25 1st half
15"/L40 twin Turret     $0.50 1st half

[The Rock Doctor]

Is 1/10 the last Italian report?

[Sachmle]

2/10 is the last HY for Italy.

[Korpen]

My feeling here is that it is fine for a NPC Italy to share out the things that was started when the player left, but not really staring any new tech for sharing. Just my view.

[Guinness]

I'm eager for a ruling on this too, as Valles has lead me to believe that this might mean 1912 engine Tech is available to the CSA...

[The Rock Doctor]

We will have to establish when Charles is starting with Italy - either at 1/11, or at the current time, 2/12.

If Charles starts at 1/11, it's his call entirely as to what he researches, and whether he shares.

If Charles starts at 2/12, I'll consult him on tech research in 1911 and 1/12 (along with the posted reports by Tanthalus, and Valles' suggestions above), make the rolls, and allow transfers of techs completed prior to 2/12.  Anything afterward would again be Charles' call to make.

[ctwaterman]

Someone send me note on what this little Gentelmens agreement contained.   I for one will probably be greatly in favor or a fair and equitable sharing of Technology.  Basically what am I getting and who'm am I sharing with.... ;)

It sounds like a great Idea but I will need more details.

ctwaterman@roadrunner.com

[Borys]

My feeling here is that it is fine for a NPC Italy to share out the things that was started when the player left, but not really staring any new tech for sharing. Just my view.

I share Korpen's view. The standard procedure seems to be that deals struck by a PC country are binding, but no new ones can be made after the country is abandoned and reverts to NPC status.
In this case I think "will share techs whose research was started by player" is fair.

Borys

[Borys]

Ahoj!
One more thing - Blooded has noticed that Italian budgets are flawed, and that some technology which is there shouldn't be there.
Tanthalas did not reply to my PMs about this while I still was a mod, so mybe this is the moment to set it right.
Blooded should give details of this discrepancy.
Borys

[Blooded]

Hello,

Well here are parts of old messages I had sent to Borys and then Rock.

Tanthalus had a temper on occasion, and generally did not take criticism well, I was hoping a diplomatic solution could be found. This was just after Tanth had disappeared.

...Tonight I started looking closer at Valles' reports. He has been getting massive cash flows in and when i look at other reports I can't see where it is coming from. In looking closer at the reports I saw that Tanthalus' Reports are flawed as well. he is carrying over huge amounts year to year, IC grows at large rates(esp. 1908 to 1909) apparently he took over someplace called ISA? From france? he claimed to be doing maddoxs reports for him and getting paid for it($20 per half), but it still does not add up. h2 10 italy had a $80 'other income' and made a $60 loan, etc etc etc. He has openly stated that he does this to circumvent the no carryover rule. because all the reports are separate it makes it hard to track especially since my time is limited. I have added a few halves up and his math has problems. with little tracking of what is military versus civilian spending.

....To assist with understanding my confusion I wrote down some details of what I  had been referring to before.

Due to the large amounts of Other Income, Loans and carryovers,
I became confused about where all this money was coming from.
This led to analyzing the reports back from 1H1906.

Problems I have come across on the Italia Reports
(for the most part I have stopped tracking problem after 1909 started- I don't have the time):

Money:
Definate problem with keeping Military spending separate from civilian.
does not become a problem until 1h1909 when mil spends $59.45 out of a max $51.84 possible.
All other half years had spent less than what was available(but claim that more could have been spent than was actually available).
I think the problem stems from carryovers being added to income then that total is divided in half, actually the money should be divided by 2 then the carryovers(etc) added to mil or civ as seperate entities.

for example 1h1907 $2.67(mil) and $10.9(civ) was leftover, in 2h1907 this means only $44.04(mil)
should be available but it shows $47.16 could have been spent. over time this discrepency causes big problems.
to be tracked properly you must start from 1h1906.

Population:
1h1909 ISA added, pop should be 41.7 not 39.7
2h1909 eritrea gained 0.8 mil, then across the board increase of 4% in 2H1909
increase of over 6% total in 1H1910
was supposed to be only 2.5% total for 1h1910

IC:
.5 IC built in somalia in 2h1907 that was not finished
4 IC appear in 1H1909, 2 in Italia(one paid for), 1 in eritria,
and a new possesion ISA has 1 IC

BP:
A total of 2 BP had been leftover by 1h1909(in his favor)

Tech:
1h1908 used $0.25 extra($3 max)
2h1908 used $0.75 extra($3 max)
1h1909 used $1 extra($4 max)

1h1908 only integrated 02 air tech for 1 HY
2h1908 only integrated 1900 armor tech for 1 HY
2h1908 only integrated adv inf tech for 1 HY
2h1908 only integrated adv res(?) tech for 1 HY
2h1908 only researched electric tech for 2 HY claimed 3 HY
1h1909 only researched electric tech for 3 HY claimed 5 HY
1h1909 only researched 1906 airtech for 2 HY claimed 4 HY
2h1909 only researched 1905 cbr tech for 4 HY claimed 5 HY
2h1909 only researched 1906 air tech for 3 HY claimed 5 HY


All the problems are compounded by 1909 and tracking money gets even harder from then on. 

Sorry for bringing this stuff up but reports are not really scrutinized(I know that I had never really checked anything out before- I had only tried to spend alot of time making sure my reports were as accurate as i could).

Hopefully when he returns, he will have taken a half year report to solve them(as I did last half). Some are minor and could be looked over but the tech has placed him years ahead and population decades ahead. This is unfair to the other players.

Tanth is a great guy and we have 'talked' for hours on AIM, I just hope its not deliberate fudging, but it happens so much, One wonders.

Just felt you needed to be aware.

[ctwaterman]

Thanks for the note - I myself was wondering where the 79.73 other income from the 1910H2 report came from while I was just working on a little spread sheet here.  Lets just say Im having problems getting numbers to add up..... but was looking for rules to see whether I was missing something or not......

Back to the spread sheet I go...

[Borys]

Back to the spread sheet I go...

Hint - stone slab, chisel and hammer!
:D
Borys

[P3D]

Back to the spread sheet I go...

Hint - stone slab, chisel and hammer!
:D
Borys

When did you change from clay, writing stick and sushine? :P

[Korpen]

On a more serious note, while spreadsheats are good (very good), I think it is a good idea to make the first budget largely without them to get a good understanding of the basics.

Or better yet, make you own spreadsheat, as that speed up thing afterwards while making sure one get the basics. :)

Generally we need to take a better look at budgets, so far the only one that have really scrutinised them seems to be blooded,, kudos to You.  :-*

[ctwaterman]

*evil grin*   Yes I spent about 3 Hours last night simply creating a spread sheet with the Italian Fleet and then With the Economy.  Tonight if nothing goes wrong at work I will finish building the Spread Sheet to include the 27 Legions listed for the Italian Army.  I agree building the Spread Sheet is helping me learn the rules every time I have to go back to the rules to check and making sure my formula is correct.

I have no problems with getting rid of some of the Technology of course I'm going to have to finish organizing what I have.  I certainly dont want to boost other peoples Tech with Tech I am not supposed to have.

As a side note anyone want to buy an Aircraft Carrier..... :o
Why do I have an Aircraft Carrier with 20 Machine Gun toting airplanes on it.
I dont even want to know what opperational loses would be like but can anyone find a use for them other then straffing helpless costal villages or local tribesmen.  Because they cant carry bombs and they cant carry a radio....?????