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Started by Korpen, December 10, 2007, 03:45:54 AM

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Desertfox

QuoteYou cannot build a 30.000t 24kts BB with 1909 engines either.

This comes close, and with a few minor modifications can probably make 24knots.

Natal, Orange Battleship laid down 1909

Displacement:
   26,500 t light; 28,061 t standard; 30,217 t normal; 31,942 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   661.37 ft / 651.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   201.59 m / 198.42 m x 28.35 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,230.19lbs / 558.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
      8 - 0.40" / 10.2 mm guns (6 mounts), 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14,030 lbs / 6,364 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   388.00 ft / 118.26 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   263.00 ft / 80.16 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   388.00 ft / 118.26 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   388.00 ft / 118.26 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,879 shp / 35,718 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,881 tons

Complement:
   1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
   £2.705 million / $10.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,754 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 11,352 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 4,713 tons, 15.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 646 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 3,237 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,463 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 293 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,176 tons, 7.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,968 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,717 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,112 lbs / 17,741 Kg = 31.8 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.50 ft / 8.69 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.41 ft / 5.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,378 Square feet or 4,123 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 868 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

P3D

It would require a length of 700' and BC below 0.5 (yeah, sure, why not?),  significantly weaker armor and shorter range. Forget good steadiness or stability. You might slim it down further by an narrow beam, but 88' is the narrowest I find on 13.5"-14" BBs. Don't worth that extra 1 knot. Eventually you arrive at something that should be considered to be a battlecruiser in Navalism.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)


Displacement:
   22,897 t light; 24,115 t standard; 25,616 t normal; 26,817 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   685.00 ft / 685.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   208.79 m / 208.79 m x 26.82 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,434 lbs / 5,640 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   255.00 ft / 77.72 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,988 shp / 35,799 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,701 tons

Complement:
   1,012 - 1,316

Cost:
   £2.412 million / $9.649 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,554 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 8,195 tons, 32.0 %
      - Belts: 3,347 tons, 13.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 668 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 2,475 tons, 9.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,480 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 225 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,181 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,767 tons, 42.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,719 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,557 lbs / 15,221 Kg = 24.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.496
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Mid (45 %):      22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
      - Stern:      13.50 ft / 4.11 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.87 ft / 6.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,009 Square feet or 3,717 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The first purpose of a warship is to remain afloat. Anon.
Below 40 degrees, there is no law. Below 50 degrees, there is no God. sailor's maxim on weather in the Southern seas

Ithekro

You might be able to make 27 knot ACs, but none were every built in during this time.  The "Packet Battleships" could make that speed if I remember correctly and there are essentially armored cruisers...though their armor would be considered rather light in this time period.  Not much better than Rohan's Belted Cruiser's in that department.  I think there were plans for some but the turbine driven battlecruisers and the race for battleships more or less sealed the Armored Cruiser's fate.  If you wanted to scout for the fleet, you had two options left, light cruisers and battlecruisers.  Either very heavy ships or very cheap ships.