Alliance and New Switzerland Peace Talk Thread...

[Carthaginian]

The Confederacy suggests that all payments for 'unwarrented invasion' be paid to the Green Cross rather to national governments. The Green Cross may then manage the funds as necessary. This may ease the tension resulting over the payments of said reperations.

Tne 'unwarrented declaration of war' point would not be affected by this.

[Desertfox]

Hey at least I had a reason to declare war on the Dutch, neither the Austrians, Germans or Japanese had a reason to declare war on NS.

[Carthaginian]

Hey at least I had a reason to declare war on the Dutch, neither the Austrians, Germans or Japanese had a reason to declare war on NS.

OoC:
What was that reason? IIRC, the entire thing was started by an episode of 'unlettered privateering.' That removes any apparent reason.

IC:
We're not convinced so.
Convince us.


ON THE OTHER HAND:

OoC:
The Austrians, Germans and Japanese were courted by nations friendly to them to join in a war effort against an old antagonist, unfriendly nation, or something other than a friend.
IIRC, the Swiss contacted many apparently uninvolved parties to enter the war as well... including the CSA. I wouldn't be suprised if they were simply outbid on the ones that did enter.

[Korpen]

Hey at least I had a reason to declare war on the Dutch, neither the Austrians, Germans or Japanese had a reason to declare war on NS.

They hade plenty of reasons, that you declared war on the Netherlands is the largest one.

[Desertfox]

What was that reason? IIRC, the entire thing was started by an episode of 'unlettered privateering.' That removes any apparent reason.

Even in the case of clear cut piracy that does not give the Dutch the permission to cut underwater telegraph cables. The ships involved could have been simple pirates using Swiss ensigns. We know the truth OOC but IC it was very blurred at the time. Also per the Hauge nations do have the right to stop merhants on teh high seas to investigate for piracy, exacly what NS tried to do. Since the French ships might have been pirates and mroe could be around, it was decided to take the merchants to a safe port to investigate without danger from pirate attacks.

The Austrians, Germans and Japanese were courted by nations friendly to them to join in a war effort against an old antagonist, unfriendly nation, or something other than a friend.
IIRC, the Swiss contacted many apparently uninvolved parties to enter the war as well... including the CSA. I wouldn't be suprised if they were simply outbid on the ones that did enter.

True, but that doesnt change their 'unwarrented declaration of war'.

They hade plenty of reasons, that you declared war on the Netherlands is the largest one.

That's not the largest one. The true reason is that they where afraid of NS and where just waiting for any reason even the slimest one to declare war. And they had reason to be afraid, both countries had already betrayed NS and had attacked or nearly attacked NS without cause.

[Korpen]

March 30, 1908

The Mark issues this declaration of intent:

The 21 points of of Wynson.

The Kingdom of Rohan wishs to mediate a truce between the various hostile powers based on the war as it stands and factors that lead up to this war.

1.  Taiwan and Hainam will be removed from the United States of New Switzerland.  There they have two options at present, be placed under a nuetral protectorate until such time as they can be fully independent of either New Switzerland or the Middle Kingdom, or the two islands will be annexed by the Middle Kingdom.  (Observers note: If the two islands continue fighting as they are the term will be moot as they will be annexed by the Middle Kingdom eventually.)

2.  Buru is annexed by the Neatherlands.

3.  Timor and other pre-war Dutch islands are returned to the Neatherlands.

4.  New Guinea returns to its pre-war borders.

5.  Tinian and Aquijan are annexed by the Empire of Japan.  Saipan remains Swiss but is disarmed.  Tinian and Aquijan are also to remain disarmed.

6.  Tasmania is annexed by Brandenburg as a protectorate for five years.  After which time the residents may choose to rejoin the United States of New Switzerland, or any other power, become independent, or remain a protectorate for another five years to repeat the cycle.

7.  Swiss Samoa is annexed by Brandenburg.

8.  Swiss pay $5 to Firanji for the damages that lead up to this war.

9. Swiss pay $1 to Austria for vessel lost in combat

10. Swiss pay $3 to Brandenburg for vessels lost in combat

11. Swiss pay $5 to the Neatherlands for vessels lost in combat and an unwarrented declaration of war.

No Objections from the Netherlands so far.

12. Swiss pay France $1 for illegally attacking French cruisers that lead to this war.

13.  The Middle Kingdom pays New Switzerland $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

14. Japan pays New Switzerland $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

15. Brandenburg pays $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

16. Austria pays $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

Not really for me to argue on behalf of others, but considering the issue of collective security, in no case was the attack against the pacific Hun unwarranted.
But as it does not directly affect the Netherlands, we do not see this as a read line if the affected Nations accept it.

17. The Neatherlands will replace or repair all pre-war Swiss and foreign lands telegraph cables and stations damage or destroyed in this war.

Negative, Durtch forces have only cut one wire, and that in a place that is no longer under Swiss control. We see not point in paying for what the Swiss are responsible for.

18.  Brandenburg and Austria will be responsible for moving displaced Swiss civilains to  Swiss held lands in conjuction with Point 19 and 20.

19.  The Middle Kingdom shall allow Swiss citizens and former citizens to freely leave Hainam and Taiwan following the ending of this conflict.

20.  The Empire of Japan shall allow Swiss citizens and former citizens to freely leave Tinian and Aquijan following the ending of this conflict.

No problems for the Netherlands

21.  The United States of New Switzerland shall be required to enforce international anti-piracy laws in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.  This includes bringing to justice its own privateers, raiders, and pirates.  This point shall be supervised by the Kingdom of the Neatherlands and report to the Kingdom of Rohan and the Republic of France as a neutral powers.

However, the Netherlands have some strong doubts about the outline of this treat, as it does not address the fundamental issue for the Netherlands, the security of the Netherlands territory. The treaty as proposed is effectively as status que ante bellum, sometime that is not acceptable as there is nothing that prevents the Swiss from repairing for six months and then try and attack again.
Therefore the Netherlands demand two more points
22: Complete and total disarmament and demilitarization of New Amsterdam, and the dismantling of all military infrastructures there.
23: The withdrawal of all troops, ships and bases West of Longitude 130 degrees east
As New Switzerland have no territory east of that line, such deployments are offensive in nature, and such a withdrawl does not degrade NS capacity to defend itself.

This is so what we sign is a peace that can last our life times and not just a short term armistice.

[Korpen]

What was that reason? IIRC, the entire thing was started by an episode of 'unlettered privateering.' That removes any apparent reason.

Even in the case of clear cut piracy that does not give the Dutch the permission to cut underwater telegraph cables. The ships involved could have been simple pirates using Swiss ensigns. We know the truth OOC but IC it was very blurred at the time. Also per the Hauge nations do have the right to stop merhants on teh high seas to investigate for piracy, exacly what NS tried to do. Since the French ships might have been pirates and mroe could be around, it was decided to take the merchants to a safe port to investigate without danger from pirate attacks.

That is not what the Swiss did, the laws of the seas allow you to stop a ship suspected of piracy. The Swiss demanded a stop to look for a person aboard, something the Hague treaties clearly prohibits.

Then the fact hat the Swiss force operated under false identities, as well as employing known pirates...

[Ithekro]

12. Swiss pay France $1 for illegally attacking French cruisers that lead to this war.

13.  The Middle Kingdom pays New Switzerland $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

14. Japan pays New Switzerland $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

15. Brandenburg pays $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

16. Austria pays $2 for the unwarrented invasion of Swiss lands.

The suggestion on these points being paid to the Green Cross and thus be avalible to assist any damaged party seems acceptible.

6.  Tasmania is annexed by Brandenburg as a protectorate for five years.  After which time the residents may choose to rejoin the United States of New Switzerland, or any other power, become independent, or remain a protectorate for another five years to repeat the cycle.

8.  Swiss pay $5 to Firanji for the damages that lead up to this war.

Peacemakers will need clarification on the statues of Tasmania and the actual value of the cargo of the Firanji convoy to implement changes.

17. The Neatherlands will replace or repair all pre-war Swiss and foreign lands telegraph cables and stations damage or destroyed in this war.

The Mark feels the Neatherlands the most capable of accompleshing this task in the least amount of time to return international communications within the region.  This is why they were selected for the task.  Most cables have been cut by Brandenburg and New Switzerland, but neither has the efficent means of completing the task in a timely manner.

21.  The United States of New Switzerland shall be required to enforce international anti-piracy laws in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.  This includes bringing to justice its own privateers, raiders, and pirates.  This point shall be supervised by the Kingdom of the Neatherlands and report to the Kingdom of Rohan and the Republic of France as a neutral powers.

This clause was thought up to force an accounting on the Swiss for acts of piracy and hopefully inspire cooperation in the years following this seemingly needless war by having Swiss forces reporting to Dutch forces and then to neutral parties.  Basically an enforcement of the Hague treaties.

22: Complete and total disarmament and demilitarization of New Amsterdam, and the dismantling of all military infrastructures there.

23: The withdrawal of all troops, ships and bases West of Longitude 130 degrees east
As New Switzerland have no territory east of that line, such deployments are offensive in nature, and such a withdrawl does not degrade NS capacity to defend itself.

These will need to be reviewed before enacted.

[Korpen]

The Mark feels the Neatherlands the most capable of accompleshing this task in the least amount of time to return international communications within the region.  This is why they were selected for the task.  Most cables have been cut by Brandenburg and New Switzerland, but neither has the efficent means of completing the task in a timely manner.

Very well, in the name of progress and conciliation the Netherlands accept.
(Just a sidenote, if entire wires have to be replaced, a bill will be sent to the owner, after all there is a great del of natural wear on the cables)


EDIT; Clarification, the Netherlands accepts point 21 and the responsibility and obligations that comes with it (just did not comment on that before).

[Ithekro]

Note: It would take a Rohirrim Belted Cruiser 27 days to reach Sydney to begin a fact finding mission in Australia.  That is at 12 knots without stopping (they have the coal for it).  After that the group/team would need time to investigate the facts in Tasmania and if possible a group to gain access to Firanji, Caliphate, or (probably easiest) French or Dutch and Swiss reports on the convoy and what it was worth.  Then travel back to Rohan.  So we are looking at nearly three months before such a mission brings back results.

[maddox]

If asked, France is perfectly willing to send every report on this piratical attack to Rohan.
Including the fact that the French captains did order the first torpedo salvo, and gun shot exchange.

[Desertfox]

Gra Columbia also every record from that incident from the Swiss side.

[Carthaginian]

Note: It would take a Rohirrim Belted Cruiser 27 days to reach Sydney to begin a fact finding mission in Australia.  That is at 12 knots without stopping (they have the coal for it).  After that the group/team would need time to investigate the facts in Tasmania and if possible a group to gain access to Firanji, Caliphate, or (probably easiest) French or Dutch and Swiss reports on the convoy and what it was worth.  Then travel back to Rohan.  So we are looking at nearly three months before such a mission brings back results.

IC:
The Confederate States of America would be happy to contact the French, Dutch and Caliphate governments if Rohan would handle the dealings with the Swiss and the Franji. In such a way, both halves of the investigation could be handled simultaneously. This would drastically cut down on the amount of time spent.

All the necessary European reports could be brought to France, where they would be examined and received by the CSA, which would bring them directly to Rohan.


OoC: You could write the parts that the CSA 'gathered and analyzed' and just say we were involved to speed the process. I have a couple of nursing exams coming up and will only have a little bit of time to write anything involved over the next week or so.

[Ithekro]

That may work, but that means it may take as little as two months (or just a little over) to get the ships to Australia, get the data, and then return home.  Three months (or July 1) seems like a reasonable time to have all data collected and call for a cease fire while negotiations formally commence.

Of course by then I expect Saipan, Hainam, and Taiwan to have fallen to China and Japan, plus there could always be other campaigns of note by then.

[miketr]

Note: It would take a Rohirrim Belted Cruiser 27 days to reach Sydney to begin a fact finding mission in Australia.  That is at 12 knots without stopping (they have the coal for it).  After that the group/team would need time to investigate the facts in Tasmania and if possible a group to gain access to Firanji, Caliphate, or (probably easiest) French or Dutch and Swiss reports on the convoy and what it was worth.  Then travel back to Rohan.  So we are looking at nearly three months before such a mission brings back results.

Wouldn't The Mark have some type of diplomatic mission in Australia perhaps in the Firanji or one in Japan, Middle Kingdom, Siam, etc?  Iberia is running convoys in the area and would be willing to transport observers from an embassy of The Mark to wherever they need to go.   This should save some time on getting information.

Iberia