The Dragon

Desertfox · September 13, 2007, 06:01:48 PM

This plane without the foward stablizer:
http://www.avsim.com/pages/0803/fs2004_review/add-ons/addon_02.jpg
The gun is a standard bolt action rifle (similar to Mauser G-98). The gun is fixed under his seat. Historiclly Lanoe Hawker was a crack shot, plus there is the element of luck involved.

Carthaginian · September 13, 2007, 06:16:51 PM

So, a Curtiss Triad without a necessary piece of avionics?;)

Ithekro · September 13, 2007, 06:38:04 PM

Basically luck.

Tanthalas · September 13, 2007, 07:01:35 PM

OOC

gah i have spent all afternoon flying period aircraft in X-plane on full realisim, have to say i have issues with someone being able to take enough atention off keaping the plane in the air to do somthing like that

Ithekro · September 13, 2007, 07:42:50 PM

I was thinking pistol more than a rifle actually. Does that make a difference for the better?

Tanthalas · September 13, 2007, 07:52:31 PM

a pistol i might have belived since, you can fly them with one hand on the stick but to take both off to operate a rifle id seriously doubt you wouldnt crash to. Seriously the wright 1909 flyer is almost out of control when your in control. One misstep and you crashtry to turn a little fast you crash, let go of the stick just to light a smoke you crash, hell take off and landing are an artform unto themselves.

Long and short these planes are a handfull, even the next generation aircraft are a handfull to be totaly Honest, with them its mostly a lack of power though, these are just compleatly unstable.

oh and if your wondering why i was flying them its for a news story im working on, I was doing research.

Desertfox · September 13, 2007, 10:51:36 PM

The rifle would be fixed so I figure he can fly with one hand and fire with the other, he is not holding the rifle. I also figured a fixed rifle would be more accurate than a pistol.

QuoteSo, a Curtiss Triad without a necessary piece of avionics?

Wasnt really required, and it makes the plane look ugly.

The Rock Doctor · September 14, 2007, 06:48:19 AM

My recollection is that the first historical kill was with a pistol.

Though I know virtually nothing about boomsticks, I'd guess that it'd be easier at this point to aim a revolver than an airplane, and it'd be easier to operate a handgun designed for one hand than a rifle designed for two.

Of course, luck is relevant, and it is just one kill.

Walter · September 14, 2007, 10:55:53 AM

QuoteHistoriclly Lanoe Hawker was a crack shot, plus there is the element of luck involved.

Historically, Lanoe George Hawker isn't even 18 yet at this point... and frankly I will not accept making historical characters older in the current Navalism timeframe (which started when we started in 1906) than they were in out timeline...
(... unless the person(s) in question is/are dead)
Personally, I also prefer it if the historical people live where they are supposed to live in the world...

Regarding the flight, I think only a pistol is remotely realistic.
As I read it, the pilot needs to reach for the gun itself in order to fire. Considering that the gun is fixed under his seat, and the fact that he would have to reach under the seat to get to the weapon to (a) pull the trigger and (b) to reload the weapon. This is in my opinion much, much worse than trying to shot from horseback. Considering how 'new' planes are, there just isn't enough skill (flying or shooting) or luck in the world to make this realistic at this point in time, no matter what is being rolled by P3D or Ithekro. Considering what Tanthalas said, I think the moment the pilot leans slightly to the right (or left if he is left-handed), he's in trouble (or to be more precise: dead).
If you are actually going to stick to your story of a fixed rifle underneath the seat of the pilot, the only thing that is realistic to say is that you just killed the 17 year old Captain Lanoe George Hawker... that is, IF HE IS LUCKY ENOUGH!!! If not then he's maimed for life, wishing he was dead.

But that is all my opinion... and reading what I have typed, I think I'm starting to sound like Hooman and his grand posts regarding unrealistic power gaming on the Wesworld board...

Borys · September 14, 2007, 11:51:34 AM

Ahoj!
A freak, lucky shot blow up the HMS Hood. One in a million chance, never seen before nor after. Let's extend this analogy here ...
Borys

Walter · September 14, 2007, 01:01:26 PM

I think that the chance of hitting and blowing up HMS Hood at more than 30,000 yards in 1921 is bigger than being able to kill an enemy pilot while flying a death contraption which you can barely control with both hands and having to reach under the seat with one hand to operate the rifle in 1908...

Borys · September 14, 2007, 01:08:00 PM

Use the Force, Lanoe, use the Force ..

Desertfox · September 14, 2007, 01:11:06 PM

Well I did not do the rolling, so I can't speak for that. I just wrote the story. I figured a rifle would be more accurate than a pistol. He doesnt have to reach under the seat to fire, he could have some sort of linkage. Reload, that's another story.

Airplanes of that day were not THAT difficult to fly. Sure they where difficult but not impossible to fly.

Skywalker shot, hmm maybe I should have him instead of Hawker. As for Hawker, maybe its another Haker we are talking about, anyway the OTL one was British, or in this case Norman, here NS is decended from Normandy, so maybe his ancestors immigrated to NS screwing up his birthday. ;)

Ithekro · September 14, 2007, 01:14:19 PM

Even with a pistol this is a lucky hit (my thoughts on this were basically someone brought a pistol with them in case they crashed in hostile territory.) This is actually at least the second meeting of aircraft over Taiwan. The first one they just waved. Neither had a weapon (or at least a weapon they could use against an aircraft). This time things are more desperate for the Swiss. A strap on rifle doesn't make all that much sense really. Why have one their at all if your mission is recon and enemy trench harrashment. A pistol (nice long barreled revolver for range, or a short barreled one for emergency use or some kind of new automatic pistol) works better in the kind of fight I was picturing. Two planes flying across the lines. One guy expecting to wave (or give rude gestures) again, the other realizing he could shoot the cocky little yellow man and his fake smile right out of his seat. Two shots is about all you could get on a pass. One on the approach and one either as they pass or as they part, unless one gives chase.

Walter · September 14, 2007, 01:24:04 PM

QuoteUse the Force, Lanoe, use the Force ..

Wrong part of the Universe, Darth Borys. In this sector of the Universe, the Force is force-less. :D

QuoteWell I did not do the rolling, so I can't speak for that. I just wrote the story. I figured a rifle would be more accurate than a pistol. He doesnt have to reach under the seat to fire, he could have some sort of linkage. Reload, that's another story.

No doubt it was rolled for pistol use.
If I was forced into that plane and had to make a choice of the rifle and the pistol, I would go for the pistol. Reloading the rifle is going to kill you. You reach down, moving slightly to the right and while doing that you unconsciously pull your left arm (and the control stick) along. Down you go.

QuoteAs for Hawker, maybe its another Haker we are talking about, anyway the OTL one was British, or in this case Norman, here NS is decended from Normandy, so maybe his ancestors immigrated to NS screwing up his birthday.

Considering you mentioned "Historiclly Lanoe Hawker was a crack shot, plus there is the element of luck involved" there is absolutely no doubt that the NS Hawker is the same as the historical Hawker. And I already stated my opintion regarding historical character's age and location.